i-G.Charlie

Do not upgrade to Catalina OS...

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I upgraded to High Sierra today as I it forced me to get the latest update of Logic Pro X

Cod4 still works fine. Hope I don’t have to upgrade any soon from now. All is going 64bit soon, even higher in the near future. 

Thanks for the warning @i-G.Charlie ?

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On 6/19/2019 at 2:49 AM, i-G.Sitting Duck said:

I find this strange as I run COD4 on my PC but the operating system is 64 bit. Cannot the Macs cope with that?

I run on 64bit windows machine also! No issues.

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On 6/19/2019 at 2:49 AM, i-G.Sitting Duck said:

I find this strange as I run COD4 on my PC but the operating system is 64 bit. Cannot the Macs cope with that?

 

On 6/20/2019 at 5:24 PM, Biggie said:

I run on 64bit windows machine also! No issues.

The reason that you can play it on a 64-bit operating Windows system is because of WOW64. Linux systems can also run 32-bit programs thanks to the compatibility layer that allows it to run in a 64-bit system. MacOS Catalina is dropping this compatibility layer; This is similar to how just recently Ubuntu 19.10 dropped support for 32-bit libs, too, breaking a large portion of Steam games on the system. Your 32-bit program has never been running natively since you upgraded to a 64-bit system.

Without the 32-bit compatibility layer that has been around in systems since 64-bit became the norm, you will be unable to run 32-bit applications anymore, and will need native 64-bit versions of said programs. This was inevitable, but MS Windows will keep it intact for quite some time because otherwise it would break a ton of businesses' operation, as a *LOT* of businesses out there run legacy software from years ago simply because they continued functioning thanks to the compat layer, and the old saying goes, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." 

Edited by SenpaiLord
including biggie
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5 hours ago, i-G.Sitting Duck said:

I didn't realise that Apple were dropping that layer. They call it progress but it really is just a way to screw more money out of all of their users.

I mean, it is progress, but I'm sure you're right that the timing of the move is profit-related on Apple's end (The drop of the headphone jack had NOTHING to do with their acquirement of Beats Audio bluetooth headphones, right? ???)

Applications nowadays should be compiled for 64-bit though, since processors have been 64-bit capable all the way back to the Pentium 4 days. The only reason COD4 was compiled for 32-bit was because of XP, obviously. Application performance is better if it can make use of the additional instruction sets and increased memory ceiling. I mean, even the latest Raspberry Pi's are capable of it and are moving to ARM64.

The downside of keeping 32-bit around is that it's only there for legacy programs, it serves no benefit to keep it around; Somebody gets paid to keep that layer ported, intact, and functioning across future system releases. It's kind of a crossroads, really. You either keep things held back a little for the capability to run older software, or you drop that support entirely for the benefit of utilizing 64-bit hardware to its proper extent. 

:/ Guess we'll see in the coming days.

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On 7/1/2019 at 8:26 PM, i-G.Sitting Duck said:

I didn't realise that Apple were dropping that layer. They call it progress but it really is just a way to screw more money out of all of their users.

Being an Apple developer amongst other things, I have known (seen) this coming for years.  Apple doesn't hold back when it comes to moving forward.  That's why the others follow and copy to such an extent (most notably in iOS). The world has been 64 bit for a long time and like the 16 bit and 8 bit days (I remember them) they have to pass in to obscurity. The iPhone has been 64 bit-only since 2013. If Apple keep's supporting very old software through emulation layers then they are going to get bogged down (yes that's you Windows) with trying to maintain compatibility. Since it's launch in 1984 the Mac's operating system has migrated from running as a 16/32bit operating system on Motorola 680x0 series chips, a 32bit operating system on IBM PowerPC RISC chips, to a 32/64-bit architecture on x86 chips and now to 64-bit only on x86. It's still here and still running pretty sweet, despite all those transitions, and is running the latest and greatest technologies well.

Poor old Windows 10 is a complex mess of interfaces that hark back to Windows 95 days! I have many customers who you use Windows and in some cases their business is running on software that is being maintained and upgraded but is still built on the same underlying code from Windows NT days. The amount of hacks I have to go through to configure those apps to run is amazing.  The installation manual for this software has pages and pages dedicated to just this task. Windows 10 would be a 1000% better if developers were unable to utilise this old code and forced instead to use modern API's (programming interface/methodologies). This underlying mess is why web based programs are becoming the fashion for many modern application systems and their associated cloud infrastructure.  Systems like Google Docs and Apple iWork and Xero accounting. With the web you can create one interface for all Web browsers on any system and bypass the mess of the operating system per se. Unfortunately the web can't resolve all the issues because they can't really interface with the hardware under your computer's bonnet in order take advantage of video cards, sound, peripherals etc.

Don't get me started on Android... Well just a little. Android suffers from a whole raft of problems relating to processors, hardware support across all devices, and so much more.  The software installations on Android machines are like the pre-installed mess of manufacturer-specific software that new Windows PC's come saddled with. Like Windows too they are rife with malware. The processors found in an Android device can range from shockingly slow to very fast and yet you are still permitted to install apps on a low-end device that can only perform useably on a high-end device. No wonder developers generally release first, and often only ever release, an iOS version of an app.

Apple has created, and is continually updating, independent API's that allow developers to far more easily create apps that can be installed across all iOS, iPadOS, watchOS, macOS, tvOS hardware (where appropriate) all from one installation source. What's more it doesn't matter what processor the device is running on because its processor independent yet can still take advantage of the specialised hardware of each different device. Most importantly, Apple has its own ARM processors that outclass x86 chips in most facets, especially when it comes to power were watt.  Apple has been using these their own chips since 2013 and have honed and tuned them for their devices. It won't be too long before we will see Mac's running on these chips. It's pretty magical what they are doing.  Especially from a developer's point of view.

I have an external thunderbolt 3 SSD with a crisply minted and up to date version of Mojave that has only COD 4 and a few select old favourites on it.  I can boot off it, in seconds, using any of my Macs and be playing Ninja in no time! When Catalina is at about 10.15.2 then I'll upgrade my main machine to that, and then rotate in my chair and use a second Mac or just reboot my main machine when I want to play COD 4. For the record I tried running COD 4 in Parallels in a virtual machine that was emulating an older Mac OS.  Sadly the lack of 3D hardware emulation in the virtual machine made that a no-go! Although it still allows me to run an accounting program from 1999. ?.  Not that the taxman needs me to go that far back any more... thank God! ?

Progress is a part of humankind and sometimes you gotta pay the price. It's just more noticeable in the digital world because those new technologies come through at a rate that far exceeds mankind's historical efforts. For example, I went to a special space travel exhibit at a museum on the weekend and saw the computer's that were inside, and controlled, the Apollo capsules.  OMG! My watch alone could've likely got them to the moon and back.

Anyway I have rambled on for far too long.  If you made it this far then well done!

Spod xx

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2 hours ago, Spod said:

I have an external thunderbolt 3 SSD with a crisply minted and up to date version of Mojave that has only COD 4 and a few select old favourites on it.  I can boot off it, in seconds, using any of my Macs and be playing Ninja in no time!

lol, dear, I don't think any of us are as smart as you in that field.   Think you have confused most.

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"lol, dear, I don't think any of us are as smart as you in that field.   Think you have confused most. "

 

Translation 

 

He has a seperate, bootable drive. With an older operating system , for COD4 and other old bits. A good way around the updates. I do the same on my PC with  a linux op system.

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15 hours ago, i-G.Sitting Duck said:

"lol, dear, I don't think any of us are as smart as you in that field.   Think you have confused most. "

 

Translation 

 

He has a seperate, bootable drive. With an older operating system , for COD4 and other old bits. A good way around the updates. I do the same on my PC with  a linux op system.

Soz for the tech speak. What Sitting Duck said! ?

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7 hours ago, Spod said:

Soz for the tech speak. What Sitting Duck said! ?

Yeah, I do understand it all (with having and being around a husband who is IT Tech and who have set up our systems so well :) ) but there are a lot of others who don't.  However, thank you for the wall of information.  ?

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Progress!

Mission:

Get COD 4 running on a Mac whilst enabling the Mac to upgrade to Catalina and beyond and not having to reboot in an older OS in order to run it.

Results: 

Firstly forget using Parallels to emulate an older Mac.  Will not support 3D.  Probably Apple breathing down their neck not wanting people to keep supporting older Mac OS except in a limited fashion.

Subsequently instead of using a Mac virtual machine I instead used my Windows 10 VM I already had available and fully updated it along with all the Parallels drivers. I have a second COD 4 licence via Steam so I installed it and voila! 3D accelerated Cod 4 on my Mac.  It runs really well from first testing. Haven't seen how far I can ramp up the resolution and textures yet but when I have time I will add to the story. Best news is that the new Parallels (v15) which is coming out when Catalina is launched is going to support Apple's Metal 2 graphics engine and therefore will provide enhanced 3D support to Winblows virtual machines. Might give me more oomph. My Mac is a 27" Retina iMac with quite a reasonable 3D card in it so people's mileage may vary on older generation Macs that can run Catalina but only use integrated graphics and not discrete. However given that COD 4 was built some time ago its demands on 3D hardware aint nothing like modern games. For the record I had to downgrade COD 4 from the steam version 1.8 to v1.7 to enable it to support the Ninja Servers which use a previous version of the multiplayer protocol. 

The things we do for a bit of fun! ?

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